Thursday, February 26, 2009

DEMAND & SUPPLY

I was reading about dowry and marriage on Swats blog and then all the comments also.I am also strictly against dowry, but first we must understand clearly the meaning of dowry also.
For me dowry means anything which is demanded and given unwillingly. But i dont consider anything and everything given to daughters as dowry, because daughter or son , parents give it to both, whereas sons always get the major part( and this is also justified because traditionally son bore all the duties and took responsibility of the parents), daughters get something as a part of gifts given to them on different occasions,.Dont the parents of a boy also do a lot for couple? so why this discrimination when it comes to girls.
Dowry system cant be abolished by girls saying we wont let our parent s give anything, for this to be effective, girls will have to also sacrifice something. Whenever there is a choice between two matrimonial candidates where both are equally qualified but one is from a rich family and other from a poor...no girl will go for the poor one, and it becomes a case of demand and supply.
girls dont want their parents to give anything any marriage, but wants their inlaws to give them expensive sarees and jewellery and sometimes dont give due importance to their gifts. It all comes down to values...till we value everything for the sentiments not for the price, till we find that virtues are more important than money, these systems will remain there however we may try, because we havent changed our mindsets, we are protesting what is convenient for us,its not important for a daughter's parents to say that they dont believe in dowry, but for a son's parent to realise. I read in a comment....The girls come to the groom leaving their family and all.behind....helloooooooo? now.a days no girl leaves behind anything, rather tries to do more than she could before marriage.yesterday i came across a man who has been married for 20 years and still his wife cant see beyond.. my parent, my siblings, for her no body has any value in life except her side of family, and she is creating a havoc in many people's life, now tell me, bringing up this type of generation, can it bring any positive change any society.
I have heard many girls saying that it would be better to have a matriarchial society where girls parents live with the couple..it will be more harmonious...but I know a couple..old one who went to live with their daughter and came back and now living on their own.
I know a lady who is living with her daughter and she keeps saying to me.....its better to live with the son, ur MIl lives with you so comfortably, whereas I have to work so much at this age.
So nothing is about gender, its about people..if a boy can adjust to his inlaws, so can the girl. Whichever system we have, there are bound to be some hiccups everywhere, but its only values or Sanskar which make our life better and which help us making others happy. Those who are sensitive(not to their own feelings, but to others), flexible, and respect their families will always do well in all circumstances. Life is never all about living for yourself, a little bit of kindness and sensitivity goes a long way and believe me families are very important in life, they give you an anchor and roots in life.

37 comments:

Hobo ........ ........ ........ said...

Dowry - The word is not appropriate
Who is responsible ?
Few who ask for same.

Reflections said...

"nothing is about gender, its about people...."

"Life is never all about living for yourself, a little bit of kindness and sensitivity goes a long way and believe me families are very important in life, they give you an anchor and roots in life. "

The saying "It is in the woman's hand to make or break a home" is never more truer than now.

Excellent Renu.....u put it across 'just like how it is'.

Destination Infinity said...

You are right about dowry. But I would also include inheritance of properties by both sons and daughters as equally wrong. I know it's an absurd logic, but I feel that when a sibling knows there is huge property which would come to him\ her, they would lose the incentive to work hard. Have you heard of Inheritance taxes? They are in place in countries like Japan.

Destination Infinity

starry nights said...

A very touchy subject , one which I don't approve of also.

aneri_masi said...

I would define dowry as anything which is demanded. Doesn't matter whether it is given willingly or unwillingly. It is the "demand" that is wrong.

And it is absolutely not the case that no one will choose a poor family over a rich one. That is quite gross generalization.

All the cases you mention (girls not valuing the gifts given by in-laws, not considering in-laws as their own family, etc) are all valid, but we need to consider the percentage of how often this happens versus the other way round.

I believe Swats (and many other dowry related posts) was going against the "system", the "idea" of demanding something to make a relationship. Almost like its a business deal. That is what is basically wrong. Baaki to, as you say, is all upon values and kindness and sensitivity. No relationship can thrive without those, regardless of whether dowry was given/demanded or not.

Renu said...

Hobo; Responsibility lies with many .

Reflections: I feel so happy to see that still there are few young people who think like me:)


Starry Nights: touchy yes:), but only becuase most of the people think with a bias.

Aneri_nasi: :), so kashmira u r angry with me, I knew it that i will anoy many young girls, but I wrote the truth..what i have seen.and in my circle of people percentage is quite high, I have seen many girls even breaking thir love- relationships due to better prospects.Though I can say categorically that neither I have given, nor taken, but seen many such incidents.

Swats said...

Thnx fr raising the issue, Renu :)

and I agree when u talk abt 'sanskar' and 'fmly'..my sentiments exactly!

Deeps said...

Absolutely,Renu.Everything is in the mindsets of people.

Sandhya said...

Demanded dowry is definitely bad. Nowadays most of the younger generation have got one child or two, so, I hope this custom (?) will go!

If the children come out from a joint family, where everyone respect each other, the children also will take the responsibility of the parents. My relative has got a daughter and her son-in-law is the only child. So, in another 10 years or something, he may have to take the responsiblity of 4 elderly people. Everything depends on individuals.

As usual, a very good post, Renu!

Pixie said...

you know how rampant this system is, right?
I know that most my colleagues have taken "dowry" from their wives' families... the amount is never less... it's all in Lakhs... One guy goes on to say that we have done a favor in marrying your girl, so you pay for her security!!
Parents actually dish out loads of amount and actually believe in this trash.
We need to stop this practice and it can only happen by taking steps...
Affection, love translates into giving gifts... that's ok from anyone - be it in-laws or parents...
but, when unnecessary demands are made to the bride's family - it's dowry and that's unacceptable...

And whoever is the new comer - be it the bride or the groom - they should be shown the necessary respect. the love and affection comes later...
When we can treat guests who come with some respect, can't the same courtesy be shown to the newcomer in our family?
And yes, the girl deserves the same respect her husband is given by her parents. How different is she?
The kind deed, courtesy, respect - we need to give all this to our elders, but one should always remember its our parents who taught us to respect by giving us kids respect. It's the same with the inlaws. If, as a new bride a girl isn't given a bit of respect or no one gives her space and time to adjust, why will she reciprocate the same?

*OK, stopping now! this comment si turning into a mini post!*

But, you get the idea don't
you? :)

Harassing, killing, abusing a bride for money or property is dowry and this is wrong and this dirty practice needs to be put an end to.

Ordinary Guy said...

For me dowry means anything which is demanded and given unwillingly
---------
I dont agree with this...
for me Dowry is anything that is given to the boy...... can be car, flat, etc etc
What i can say personally is that, if my future father in law, gives me anything, in any form, I would feel insulted.....
If anything is given to the girl, I will ensure that I will not touch a penny from it........
But my opinions are mine, from my perspective :)

Renu said...

Swat: Thanx:) as afar as I know You are girl frimly rooted with values:) thats why I love u:)

Deeps; What i anted to emphasize was that if we awant equality, we must stop thinking in terms of genders.

Dust Unsettled said...

Slightly off the topics - I am tagging you for "Slow Melodious and Soulful Songs". Hope to have a great post from you.

Renu said...

destination inifinity: cant say whaether it will make nay difference and I dont advocate any more taxes, nbecause our govt. hardly uses them judiciously, 2% cess was levied on education, but are we getting anthing better?

Renu said...

Sandhya: thanks for the permanent support:)
I think its going..I mean the custom.But thats waht I wanted to say in my post that for this there are many things which need to be changes and one of the most important is the girl's attitude.

Renu said...

Pixie; here is my firebrand Pixie:)
I totally agree with you that DOWRY IS BAD SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN AND FOR THAT MATTER I NEITHER TOOK NOR GAVE, BUT.. I dont agree with you that its always inlaws who have all the responsibility of behaving nicely and all that, now the times are changing and have seen more no. of haughty girls than nasty inlaws.
HARASSING, ABUSING AND KILLING these are all crimes wherever , whenevr and to whomsover they happen whether to inlaws or brides.

Renu said...

Ordinary Guy: :), Then where goes the notion of equality? u r so much like my brother who said the same thing.

will ur future wife will also not take anything from ur parents?

will she not touch anything of ur parents?

Will u not be responsible for ur wife"s parents?
and if u will, then why they have only rights, no duties?

Then u shouldnt take anything from ur parents also, otherwise ur parents will be victim , as they will have only duties, noo rights.

Its my perspective:)

Onthewingsofadream said...

Renu ..I agree , its not about gender , its about people ...

I hate Dowry , but then I also know I have been treated equal to my bro all through my life and will always be like that ... my dad say's half of his property is mine ..I told him to sell that and go for world tour and enjoy his life ..i dnt want a husband for a house . car or money ..I can earn that myself ...I am single and love to have my parents live with me ...but I dnt want to go back and live in thier house ( yes I dont call it mine ) ...Its just me I know ...

I think its better for elders to live alone and visit children ..it keeps the love intact and also give each couple privacy to enjoy their lives ... each indidual should earn the live style they want to mantain ...and dont look up to either parents , siblings , spouse or children after certain limit ...but at the same time , should always be ready to shoulder responsibility of taking care of anyone close ( be it friend . relative or family) at the time of need ...

thats just my opinion..

Onthewingsofadream said...

and I do know some girls ..who want , rich , good looking , well behaved , presentable , highly educated guy as husband ...love and other things ..welll they just happen ..anyways they feel marriage is all about sex for guys and comfort for girls...their choice ..i have nothing against it ..

and their parents will give their daughters a flat / car /and bank balance ...nothing for guy but for the comfort of their own daughters ..fair enuff ...

as far as guys are concerned I have also seen guys marrying only daughters of rich men ...coz in the end its all gonna be their ...also they dnt respect their in-laws the way their wives respect his parents ...that sometimes lead to my parents / my siblings things ..which I think is mutual ...both have to understand that mariage is about accepting each other with families ...U cannot love a guy( and be loved in return) while hating his mom ...:-)

Renu said...

Onthewingsofa dream: good to see the clarity in your thoughts,this is what I admire. Most of the time girls are talkking about equality with hardly a notion of what really equality means:) You are very much welcome here and I may do a post on the after thought.

Ordinary Guy said...

now I am confused.... LOL
but in my little own world, I will ensure that I touch not a penny from my parents, and not a penny from my in laws.... :)
I believe that the equation should only be one way.... the kids do everything for the elders....

A rebel all the way... said...

"Life is never all about living for yourself, a little bit of kindness and sensitivity goes a long way"...
Couldn't agree more!!!! :-)

Renu said...

Ordinary GUy: :),at the cost of sounding like giving advice..which most youngsters hate I will say this...dont be rigid, a little bit of give and take goes a long way in cementing relationships.

you have very noble thoughts here.....kids do everything for the elders....and I wish u all the best in ur life.

Rebel : yeah, this is my faith .

Pixie said...

Yea.. you are right - there are haughty girls... and we can't always blame the inlaws...
But, if one's daughter behaves in a haughty manner - we excuse her right? in some way or the other we make excuses...
We can at least try and be nice to our daughter-in-law...maybe is scared of being harassed after hearing so many stories... so, if I am nice to her and she doesn't reciprocate it back - then blame her or make excuses!
But, it's not right to judge one's DIL. When we don't judge our Daughter, we should at least try not to judge our DIL too...
:) :)

My 2 cents on this issue...

Renu said...

Pixie; You r right , we shouldnt judge anybody, but you see neither the girls can think of MIL as mother, so they cant be compared with a daughter. secondly it depends on families also, like I have always been more lenient and papmering towards my DIL then my daughter, Iam very strict with my daughter in certain things, but i will say this much that if the girls take a little care and do some hard work, then its only first year which is tumultuous, but they will reap the benefits for their whole life, just in the first year, they need to be affectionate, respectful and caring without bringing all the logics and whys? I dont think its abad bargain, when you think it will make your whole life comfortable and happy.

Ordinary Guy said...

thanks Mam....
and you are always welcome to give this ordinary guy advice...:)
i have an open mind...lol

Renu said...

ordinary guy: Then ur not ordinary but an EXTRAORDINARY GUY :)

aneri_masi said...

arey nahi, Didi, not angry :) Even I just spoke from what I have seen, a friend's boyfriend refused to marry her because she said no dowry, and heard a few such other instances of people I did not know.

So I guess there are all types.

Parents can give whatever they want, no one should demand, that's all :)

Piper .. said...

Renu, a very thought provoking post! Yet again! Well, I`m in a hurry. Shall come back and comment. There are things I dont completely agree on.

Sandhya said...

I attended a wedding (distant relative) on Sunday. Both sides are NRIs. Came here and did the wedding. Though both are well to do, when some phoolwallah asked for Rs.150/- for the auto, because the girl's side door was not opened immediately, when he tapped (they were dressing), the boy's mother coolly said 'take from the girl's side'! When I heard about this, I did not like the word she used 'girl's side'. Can't she spend Rs.150? OK, some doubt might be there whether to give the auto fare to him or not, but, somehow, it IS strange.

Renu said...

aneri_masi: I agreea nd find demanding so meaning to everybody, dont know how people do it.

Dust unsettled: Thanks for tagging me, i love music and tag both:)

Sandhya: Sandhya, this is the mindset we need to change. i could never even think about it, how can people be so petty minded, but they are and I have seen many even rich families demanding little things like this.

PG said...

a good discussion here. I think the last para of yours says it all.
Call it dowry or whatever if you expect it from someone be it your parents or in-laws, is for me a lack of charachter. I know of children here who put case against their parent 'case they know that their parents have money and also win. At the first thought i thought goodnes, what kind of children, but if you think of it again, I ask: what kind of relationship did the children have with their parents. Since i have a child I know it is a lot of work, constant attention that we needf to give them and is a lot f times so underestimated. Even though you always want thr best for your child, it is so important to ahev time for them and give then values. Values is what makes a personality, more than anything else.

Ani said...

I completely agree with u on this one.. its not about whats been happening..just because ppl are doing it ..doesnt mean u do it..

n yes ppl know when to adjust and when to make others comfortable around them.. question is how many of them wanna do that..

i have seen few friends n cousins.. makin a fuss about their parents been neglected by their spouses so they in turn not respecting their spouses parents.. its like a tit for tat kind of thing.. but then wht do u achieve out of it.. more ill than warmth..

n dowry system.. dont get me started.. i am a only child n so are few of my cousins n we were asked what our parents would be giving us when we get married off.. i mean .. only child.. so technically what ever our parents own will come to us.. n yes i would prefer if my parents kept most of it for their future life..

some ppl are just dumb i tell u..
loved the post.. have blog rolled u as well :)

Renu said...

PG: you are so right, they say...you reap what you sow. But I feel sad to see that now in India also the new generation mantra is always.. first take care of self. Plus taking care of you children is not sufficient to put values in them, its how you treat your elders that is ingrained in your children automatically.

Ani: Its all a question of doing something..we think a lot, but do little, or dont want to exert ourselves at all.
you are right when u say...its like a tit for tat kind of thing.. but then wht do u achieve out of it.. more ill than warmth,.....in relationships too much ofrighteousness also sometimes doesnt work, its more about caring, secondly most of the time H's parents live with us, so if he ignores our parents..ofcourse it hurts, but still its not a day..to..day affair, but if we behave the same then our home becomes a battlefield.

Ani said...

yup thts so true..

just tht ppl don't realise it..
i'm speaking so much.. but i dont know how things will be when i get into tht part of my life.. hehe so hopefully i can do what i am preaching right now.. :)

Destination Infinity said...

About my comment on inheritance taxes, it is not about what the Govt. is going to do but rather about what the person who inherits the property will do. When young people, who have not earned the money get entitled to so much money suddenly, I don't think it is so good. In fact, it may spoil them completely. Dowry is also unjust demand and supply. But let me tell you one thing Renu - Nothing comes free in life. We have to pay for everything. EVERYTHING.

Destination Infinity

Renu said...

Ani; You will do well, whenevr you come to that stage, as you have a ceretain clarity of thoughts and positivity, which I have seen in very few girls:)

Destination Infinity: I dont like the tax part, its like giving an outsider the benefit...see if the youth hasnt earned it, so what, its their parents who worked hard to make their children future secure........If we think like you say, then it will be discouraging people against amassing wealth, and I have always felt that capitalism is not a bad word:)

You are right that nothing comes free, but sometime though we should, but we dont have to pay for everything, but that makes life so beautiful and colorful due to different type of people with difeferent assets, liabilities and conditions.
I think you are a little bent on Socialism. is it?